80 - Boundaries with Kami Orange

The month of February we are focusing on boundaries. I've brought on boundary expert and coach Kami Orange to share her knowledge with us.  I found Kami through a friend who suggested I check her out on TikTok and when I did I loved her. 

Kami Orange (she/her) is a Boundary Coach helping people “say the thing” in a kind direct way. She's a fat, queer, autistic, white cis woman from Utah, United States with over 17 years of 1-to-1 client experience, 294k followers on TikTok, and a boundary book coming out in November 2023! 

You can find Kami at:

https://kamiorange.com/

TikTok @kami_orange

Instagram @kamiorange

I did the interview with Kami a bit differently because I wanted to make sure these episodes were easy to consume. So rather than throwing the entire interview at you and overwhelming you with boundary talk, I've separated it into three episodes.

In the first episode Kami and I talk about her journey to body acceptance and viewing her body as art.

The second episode focuses on the nuts and bolts of boundaries. What they are, why they are good. AND You aren't a jerk if you set a boundary.

The third episode is super fun, I polled the community and Kami answers boundary concerns from listeners. She first shares how she would respond and then how someone new to boundaries might respond. 

Transcript

Sabrina Rogers  0:00  
Hey, it's the emotional eating therapist show and this is our second part of a three part series with boundary expert CAMI orange. In this episode, we are focusing all on boundaries what they are when they aren't. Welcome to the emotional eating therapist Show. I'm your host Sabrina Rogers, a licensed mental health counselor, intuitive eating and body image expert, and recovering perfectionist. After healing my own disordered eating and body image issues. I'm helping women let go the guilt and shame around eating, feel at peace around food and befriend the image they see in the mirror. In this podcast, we chat about all things food, body and mental health. So that you can stop dieting, let go of perfectionism. And finally, feel confident in all areas of your life. If you want to connect with me on social media, I'm on Instagram, Facebook and Tik Tok at Sabrina Rogers lmhc. And if you enjoy listening to this podcast, please leave a review on iTunes or wherever you're listening. This helps other women find and learn about the podcast. So they too can change their relationship with food and body. Let's get ready to stay off the diet roller coaster and live healthy ever after

you're ready to learn about boundaries. And maybe, hopefully, shift your perspective on what they are so that you can maybe feel better about setting them is your hope. So that's what kami and I are talking about it this talking about in this second part of our three part series. Cami Orange is a boundary coach helping people see the thing in a kind of direct way. She's a fat, queer, autistic white sis woman from Utah in the United States, with over 17 years of one to one client experience 294,000 followers on Tiktok. And the boundary book coming out November of 2023. So without further ado, let's get to my conversation with Kami on what boundaries are. So let's talk about boundaries. And what what a boundary coach is? 

Kami  2:08  
Yeah, oh my gosh, I love being a boundary coach. So my focus is helping people say what they want and express how they feel. And especially in this kind and direct way where you're releasing expectations. It doesn't have to, you know, it's a negotiation, it's, it's accommodating. A lot of times I think when we think of boundaries, people wait until they are really unhappy before they set a boundary. And so their only association with the boundary setting is that is this very harsh, intense. Like, you have to do what I wonder I'm not talking to you anymore. And I was like, Okay, let's like, start way sooner in the process. And notice when it's like, Hey, I would prefer you know, if that was not a thing. I'll give you a good example. Literally this morning, as I was prepping for this, I got a text from a friend of mine. She's like, Hey, I have this new thing that she's doing with tracking, like her menstrual cycle. And she watched this cool video about it. And she's like, um, I wanted to tell you about it and share it with you. But I don't remember exactly what your boundaries were around, like diet culture, topics. Could you remind me what those are, you know, to see if I can just share the video with you, or if I should just summarize the parts that I liked. And like, that's because we have a good relationship. We talked about boundaries before. And I was like, Oh God, here are my free boundaries around diet, culture and weight loss topics and food moralizing, anti fat rhetoric. And she was like, Oh, okay. And so instead of sharing the video, she summarized it for me, we had a good conversation. And like, it's easy, it's fun. It's no big deal. So my goal is a boundary Coach, what I do is I help people find kind of direct language to kind of shift their life in that direction where the boundary conversations are just like no big deal. It's very like, Oh, hey, does this work for you? Yes or no. And it's not there's no anger. It doesn't have to be angry. It doesn't have to be harsh or intense. That does happen if things get to that point. And you know, there's been resentment built up. But if you build a life where you dealt with it before, like, I don't have to break up the friendship because she keeps sending me videos about weight loss, because we already had a conversation where I was like, Hey, this is not my thing. And then she clarified and we're good.

Sabrina Rogers  4:52  
So boundaries can be very like firm and like all or nothing type of things. but they don't have to be just that. Correct. So what do you think a boundary is?

Kami  5:07  
I believe a boundary is a communicative expression of what's okay and what's not. Okay. And that's a very broad definition on purpose. So a stop sign is a boundary, no trespassing sign on offense is a boundary, somebody being like, hey, you know, like their body language like shaking your head, no putting your hand up in a stop gesture. All of those are, you know, their nonverbal boundaries, but their boundaries, terms and conditions on the bottom of the website is the boundary. Also saying, hey, not in a headspace for, you know, diet, culture rhetoric, please don't share videos like that with me. Also a boundary saying, if you raise your voice at me, I will leave the room. Also a boundary. So it can be there's a range of that fits within that. But yeah, I have a broad definition that a boundary is a communicated expression of like, this is okay, this is not okay.

Sabrina Rogers  6:09  
I think what do we put it into those terms? It makes it less like the big scary monster that I think a lot of people see it as of like, Oh, I just have to communicate to you what I want or need. Oh, yeah. So how did you come to this work? Because it's not like, you know, there's a lot of people on tick tock talking about boundaries, and like, Hey, I'm a boundary coach.

Kami  6:39  
So I have a really eclectic background, I was raised in a cult, like a small cult subset of Mormonism by religious extremists. And then when I left that, I became a professional, psychic medium. And I realized, working with clients, that people have bad boundaries with the dead because they have bad boundaries with the living. And after I retired from that, I worked as a wardrobe mentor, and I was there to help people, you know, express themselves with their, you know, clothing and color and style. And I kept getting boundary questions for they're like, oh, you know, I have this, my mother keeps buying me clothes that I don't want, what do I do that type of thing. I was like, oh, people have bad boundaries around this. And I was a business consultant for a while after I was done with that business. And I was like, oh, yeah, let's get your website on, you know, get your website set up, set up your email, you know, sequences, blah, blah, blah. And people like, okay, but I have this issue with my clients. You know, they keep texting me after hours, or like, I want to work. I'm working, but my husband keeps interrupting me, and what do I do? And I was like, oh, people have bad boundaries. And then most recently, I was a spiritual teacher. And I, my focus was helping people connect with their intuition and their own, like, inner power and truth. And I was like, okay, like, this is so great, you know, helping people. And then I would get messages where they want me to tell them the answers that I was like, You do it like, I'm not, I am not your guru. Like, I'm not going to tell you if you should have another baby, or if you should get a divorce or whatever. Like, that's not how this works. And I was like, oh, everyone has bad boundaries. And so in my work as a spiritual teacher, I taught several classes on boundaries. I did several courses on boundaries. And I finally kind of took a step back when I retired as a spiritual teacher at the end of 2019. And I was like, huh, every job I've had, no matter what, I think I'm there to show up and be like, oh, yeah, let me help you with this information. All the conversations always came back to boundaries. And I mean, I believe in the universe, I believe in a sentient universe. And I was like, I can take a hint. Okay, I can take a hit. And

Sabrina Rogers  8:59  
yeah, kind of got beat over the head a couple times with that, didn't you?

Kami  9:02  
Right. So I took 2020 off. You know, I think a lot of people did and just did a lot of thinking and a lot of writing and then the beginning of 2021, I started on tick tock as boundary coach. And here we are 2023. And it's, it's grown. It's been very successful. I think my approach is successful specifically because I'm autistic. And so have a very direct way of explaining things that's different than some of the other ways people teach boundaries. Because we just kind of make it easy, just like easy and accessible. But that's how I got here. I have a very eclectic background. Sounds like it I don't know how much how much of that. Did you know Sabrina? Oh, did you know that background

Sabrina Rogers  9:58  
we talked about it last week a little bit, but not all of it. Yeah. Okay. But as you were talking, one of the things that like really popped in my head of like, Why do you think people have such bad boundaries?

Kami  10:17  
I think boundaries are an emotional skill. Just like you know, if you had a parental figure, an adult in your life and your grandpa who taught you how to change tires, or how to check the oil in your car, or whatever, you learn that, and you're just like, oh, yeah, obviously, everyone knows how to do this. Because you grew up with somebody who they did it, they involved you, they showed you how like, you think it's super normal. And then you meet somebody who you're like, how do you not know this? Like, spoiler alert, I was a person who didn't know this. So I've met a lot of people who are like, how do you not know this? And I was like, what, as well. So like, I'm not shaming anybody who doesn't know basic car maintenance, because I didn't grow up with that. And so the same thing, you know, just like physical skills, like car maintenance. Same thing with emotional skills, like boundary setting. So if you saw it modeled, you heard your parents setting boundaries, you saw them setting boundaries with you, it makes it super obvious. And so we don't always think about it. But most people grow up in households where nobody was setting boundaries, that's not a thing. The person who gets what they want is the person who is either the loudest or has the most power. And that's how they think the world works. And so it's, they didn't ever learn that skill. And so now they're adults. And they're like, Oh, I'm terrible at this. Or someone shows up in their lives. It's like, Hmm, I've noticed that you kind of struggle with boundaries with clients, and they're like, oh, my gosh, I do. So you know, then, then they have the epiphany of like, oh, I need to get some boundaries and like, go from there.

Sabrina Rogers  12:06  
It's so funny, because as we were preparing for the next segment, I was asking some of my community to give me examples of like boundaries or times boundaries have been pushed. And a lot of what I kept hearing was, well, I'd really like to set this boundary without sounding like a jerk without being an asshole without. And I was like, Ah, I think there's definitely a theme here of like, we're afraid to set boundaries, because of like some sort of people pleasing or wanting to be liked. Do you find that too?

Kami  12:42  
I think that it comes from that idea that the person in the family who gets what they want is the person who is like, the loudest, the angriest or has the most power. And so their only experience with people being assertive and saying like, Hey, could you do this, or hey, don't do this is person who is loudest, angriest and has the most power. And so in their mind, well, if I set a boundary, I'm being that person. And as a child, I didn't like my interactions with that person. So I don't want to make other people feel the way that person makes me feel. And so they're like, I can't set a boundary, because then I will be that jerk, that asshole, that terrible person. And what I have found in setting boundaries is number one, all my relationships are lovely. I don't have a single friend that I resent. They don't resent me, like it's called, it's easy. I don't really understand on a level and be like, Oh my gosh, my friends are so annoying. I don't get it. I don't have any annoying friends, all of my friends. If like, for some reason, we had to get married to like, give them you know, health insurance or something I would like, not that I'm in love with that. But like, all of my friends are lovely people. And I know that sounds like bragging. But like it's because we have good boundaries, we have good communication, and it makes your life really easy and smooth and comfortable. Like I am definitely prefer having a well boundary life. And I do it in the most like kind and direct way possible. I don't have to be angry. I don't have to be loud. I don't necessarily have to be a person with the most power. I can just say hey, this is what is okay with me. And this is what's not okay with me. How are you feeling about that? And then we go from there.

Sabrina Rogers  14:35  
I love that idea of you can be kind and have very healthy boundaries. Yeah.

Kami  14:43  
For me, I feel like it's the most kind thing I can do to have good boundaries. Because I know that I really love people. And so when I accidentally crossed their boundaries that they never communicated and then flashforward you know, days, weeks months down the road, they're like, hey, you've been doing this thing that hurts me. I'm devastated. Like, I would never want to hurt somebody. And I was like, Why didn't you tell me? Like, why didn't you tell me that this thing is bothering you? And it can be really small things like, I have a friend who was like, hey, when you call just like, call me without texting me first he's like, it sets off my anxiety. Because he's gotten so many bad news phone calls in his life. And he's like, it would be, you know, it'd be easier for me if you would text me first to be like, Hey, are you available for a phone call? May I call you now? And then call? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. Like, so that's a boundary. And it would be a very normal response if he had asked that. And I was like, Oh, I can't do that for XYZ reasons. But I can pre schedule phone calls, or I can, you know, like, call once and then hang up, and you'll know it's me. And you can call back if you want or what like we could have negotiated if that wasn't an option. Or if I ignored his boundary, and just kept calling him even though he asked me not to, that he would stop being my friends, or stop taking my calls. Like, that's a natural progression of that. And so, it doesn't have to be, you're not a jerk. If you set boundaries. Honestly, I think you're a jerk. If you're not, if you don't set boundaries. Because you're setting your friends, you're setting your family, you're setting your loved ones up to fail. And then you're upset that they failed. And it just makes relationships really difficult. Like it is so kind, it is so kind to set boundaries, and to say, Hey, this is what I need. This is how I'm feeling this is what would work for me. How are you feeling? It's not an ultimatum. It's a discussion. So like I said, with my friend, hey, this is what would be easier for me. If you text me first, before calling, it would be okay for me to say, Hey, this is this is why I can or cannot do that. And we have a discussion. So it's more like negotiating accommodations most of the time. Versus like, if you do not text me before you call me I will not be your friend anymore. Like, but that's what would have happened. If he waited and waited and waited and let all that resentment build up. Like you'd be setting me up to fail. And then our relationship would be over. And that would be such a jerk behavior. Yeah.

Sabrina Rogers  17:33  
When all you could have done was set a small boundary or negotiated a set boundary. Yeah. 

That's it for this episode friend. I hope Kami helped shift your idea on maybe looking at boundaries as the kind of thing to do with the people in our world. Next week's episode, I am throwing to kami several specific situations of where boundaries might be really helpful to implement and how she as the boundary guru would respond, and then how maybe the rest of us or those of us who are starting out with boundaries, and really afraid of implementing them might respond. So stay tuned till next week.